PLAY! vs. Video Games Live: Soule vs. Tallarico
In the fledgling realm of American video game concert series, things aren’t too small for drama as Jeremy Soule and Tommy Tallarico exchanged words via MySpace. Soule, attached to PLAY! A Video Game Symphony, criticized Video Games Live for allegedly cutting corners on orchestra size and not providing a complete orchestral experience, branding VGL as preferring “smoke and lasers.”
Quoted are excerpts of comments earlier this month by Soule and the rebuttal from Tallarico obtained from Jeremy Soule’s MySpace blog. Included are comments from VGL conductor Jack Wall and Jeron Moore of DirectSong.com, Soule’s online music label. An interesting read, without a doubt:
Jeremy Soule
Wednesday, December 05, 2007PLAY! Symphony vs. Video Games Live?
Here are a couple of photos… note the orchestra size. Admittedly, VGL has more smoke and lasers, but less players. If you like smoke and lasers, then VGL is for you. Personally, I prefer not missing instruments from parts so that a piece can be properly realized.
Video Games Live
PLAY! Symphony
[VGF note: photo link for PLAY! comparison is no longer available]
12:47 PM
There is also one other key difference which I should disclose… PLAY! Symphony is the official concert tour for my music and I am exclusive to this tour. I made a decision early on that the consistently larger orchestral format of PLAY! is better suited for my music.
-Jeremy
Posted by Jeremy Soule on Thursday, December 06, 2007 at 10:37 PM
[I]t is so difficult for me when I originally write a three note chord in trombones and I have to pick which note to drop and delete for a tiny orchestra because I don’t have the three required players. With said note missing, you now no longer have a triad and the ear has greater difficulty hearing an intended major or minor chord… or if I’m using an inversion or something more advanced, certain combinations could throw off a balance in harmonic structure elsewhere, such as violins. We’re talking about doing surgery with a chainsaw when you take a large score and try to cover it with 50% of the required players. It’s akin to removing a wheel off of a car while still expecting a smooth ride. Of course, who cares if you have enough smoke and lasers…?
-JS
Posted by Jeremy Soule on Friday, December 07, 2007 at 12:27 PM
Yo Jeremy,
Someone sent this to me and, not having spoken to you for quite some time, I thought maybe now would be a nice opportunity. I think the argument about size of orchestra is valid. For purists like us, it can be a little bit disconcerting knowing that there are less musicians playing. We composers all love to hear the full monty. However, working with VGL, I’ve learned some valuable lessons regarding live music. A 30 piece orchestra can make a lot of noise.
Think about a quartet in a concert hall. It’s not like you can’t hear the players because there are only four… no, on the contrary, they make a lot of sound all the same. Add that to the fact that we have a brilliant FOH engineer, the orchestra is mic’d, we mix the orchestra with the non-orchestral elements (drums, synths, etc.) and it sounds really, really full and exciting… to my ear.
We have done dozens of sold out concerts this year with major symphonies with 70 + players. In fact, the majority of our shows have that many. While I, as a musician, always love to work with more players, I can tell you that the show still stands on it’s own with less - they, lucky for us, have been selling out as well. The audience has never complained once to my knowledge.
I have a lot of respect for you as a composer and artist. I remember hearing your original choral work at Dorothy Chandler under Grant Gershon with the LA Master Chorale - just brilliant! What a cool thing that was. So, yeah, I understand how you feel about getting closer to that. But hey, we’re making games, and our efforts go into the fun as well as the music. In any case, I wish you the best of luck with Play!
j
Posted by Jack Wall on Wednesday, December 12, 2007 at 12:09 PM
Jeremy,
You’ll probably end up deleting this comment anyway… but at least we’ll know that you read it.
I find it a little disturbing that you would twist the truth like this. Maybe you just aren’t aware of our show all that much? Or maybe Jason Michael Paul has filled your head with garbage? Yes, it is true that SOMETIMES Video Games Live uses less musicians… but what you didn’t mention is that a lot of times we use MORE musicians! It all depends on the venue we’re playing, the economics of the city/country and the show budget. Our goal from the beginning was to bring video game music to the masses. Not just certain cities who can afford it. This is why you’ll see Video Games Live playing everywhere from the Hollywood Bowl with the LA Phil and the Royal Festival Hall in London with the Philharmonia… to places like Columbia, Missouri - Ogden, Utah and Fort Wayne, Indiana. Our message is clear. You also didn’t mention that our tickets are HALF THE PRICE as Play! and we don’t charge people extra money to meet composers after the show. You used a picture of us at a show that probably had one of the smallest stages we’ve ever played on.
Here are some pics that you may find useful in the future instead…
140+ musicians at the Hollywood Bowl with the LA Phil:
http://www.videogameslive.com/gallery/Concert-photos/stage12140+ musicians in Houston with the Houston Symphony:
http://www.videogameslive.com/gallery/album49/Houston_055
http://www.videogameslive.com/gallery/album49/805841747_95ec966460_b
http://www.videogameslive.com/gallery/album17/DSCF0281130+ in Dallas with the Dallas Symphony:
http://www.videogameslive.com/gallery/album46/093_G120+ in Washington D.C. with the National Symphony:
http://www.videogameslive.com/gallery/album47/IMG_5542_1120+ in Edmonton with the Edmonton Symphony:
http://www.videogameslive.com/gallery/album30/059_G110+ in Detroit with the Detroit Symphony:
http://www.videogameslive.com/gallery/album48/mini_IMG_0562100+ in Phoenix with the Mesa Symphony:
http://www.videogameslive.com/gallery/album29/131_G100+ in Anaheim during BlizzCon:
http://www.videogameslive.com/gallery/album52/1020409288_72664bdd91_o100+ in Columbus with the Columbus Symphony:
http://www.videogameslive.com/gallery/album39/Columbus_020100+ in Calgary with the Calgary Philharmonic:
http://www.videogameslive.com/gallery/album58/mini_Calgary_038Soule, Korea during the Blizzard Worldwide Invitational:
http://www.videogameslive.com/gallery/album44/IMG_7914I could keep going… but I’m sure you get the idea. It’s also a little deceiving because of all our special lighting, audio, video and special FX equipment on the stage we need to move the musicians closer together as opposed to being spread out across the stage (like the Play! pic).
Here’s a nice pic of the 11,000+ crowd at one of our shows. You’ll notice a smiling Arnie Roth in the bottom right enjoying our show:
http://www.videogameslive.com/gallery/Concert-photos/audience:)
We’ve played (and continue to play) with the finest musicians in the world in the finest venues in the world. Feel free to click on this link to see the symphonies we play with: http://www.videogameslive.com/index.php?s=sponsors because in reality, you’re kinda insulting them by misleading people and saying they aren’t performing with many musicians. Jason Michael Paul even tried (unsuccessfully) to compare us to Milli Vanilli and say we just play over a CD in the recent Wired Magazine article. I can tell you that a lot of symphonies weren’t happy with him when they read those false comments.
It’s a shame that you and Jason Michael Paul seem to constantly spread untrue information about us like some kind of awful political smear campaign. It’s bad for the entire industry and bad for you guys. The reputation that Play! has from both a business and personal standpoint is evident in the fact that they only have two cities listed for 2008 as opposed to the 50+ dates we have: http://www.videogameslive.com/index.php?s=dates
Even their own agents at IMG no longer work with them in favor of Video Games Live:
http://www.videogameslive.com/index.php?story=91And finally… lets be honest… the reason your music isn’t in our show isn’t based on a decision you made.
I’ve always been one of the ONLY people in the game industry that would defend and stick up for you. It’s too bad that you feel the need to post this kind of misleading information on your page. Feel free to call and discuss this with me on a personal level instead of publicly if you wish. I’ve tried reaching out to you a few times via e-mail but continue to get no response.
Feel free to talk about Play! all you want. But if you’re going to mention Video Games Live… just make sure the data is accurate.
Thanks,
Tommy Tallarico
President, Tommy Tallarico Studios, Inc. (www.tallarico.com)
Executive Producer/CEO, Video Games Live (www.videogameslive.com)
Host/writer/co-producer, The Electric Playground & Reviews on the Run television shows
Founder/CEO/Chairman, Game Audio Network Guild [G.A.N.G.] (www.audiogang.org)Posted by Tommy Tallarico on Wednesday, December 12, 2007 at 12:17 PM
It’d be nice if everyone could just get along.
Posted by Jeron [Moore] on Wednesday, December 12, 2007 at 7:07 PM
I agree Jeron. We’ve always kept to ourselves and have only focused on our own goals and achievements. We want EVERY game concert to do well for the good of the entire industry. We’re glad that we’re so unique in our presentation and are also glad that there are other ways that people are presenting game music as well.
Unfortunately when people feel the need to unfairly attack us and misrepresent us for their own gain we can only try to set the record straight and give the real facts and data. There seems to be an awful pattern of the Play! folks trying to discredit our accomplishments and popularity. I can point to numerous attacks on us in magazines, newspapers and online interviews. It would seem that the only logical reason for this must be jealousy? We’re not sure… but we also just wish it would stop.
I’m not sure what Jeremy knows or doesn’t know about Video Games Live… but the way he has represented us in this blog is unfortunately incorrect and saddens us. We figured it was best to let him know the truth so he doesn’t continue to say these kinds of things in the future. As I mentioned in my post, I’ve tried to contact him through e-mail about this but he has yet to respond.
But to address your point… YES! I agree 100%!! And we’ve been saying the same thing since the beginning!!
Tommy
Posted by Tommy Tallarico on Thursday, December 13, 2007 at 1:56 AM
January 13th, 2008 at 8:35 pm
Play! is making its way to seattle this month and i’ve purchased tickets to see it. i’m looking forward to comparing the experience to that of VGL which i saw also when it made its way to seattle. granted, VGL hit seattle early on in its existence right before its vancouver show and subsequent cancellation of all tour dates following it due to various logistical reasons, so i don’t know if VGL has changed its format since then. it’ll be impossible to NOT compare, however, so this should be fun.